The Quodlibeta Forum - When secularization doesn't mean rationalism

turoldus
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When secularization doesn't mean rationalism
« Thread Started on Apr 26, 2012, 4:51pm »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/....ligious-britain

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sandwiches
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Re: When secularization doesn't mean rationalism
« Reply #1 on Apr 26, 2012, 8:02pm »

T.S. Eliot: Four Quartets
The Dry Salvages

To communicate with Mars, converse with spirits,
To report the behaviour of the sea monster,
Describe the horoscope, haruspicate or scry,
Observe disease in signatures, evoke
Biography from the wrinkles of the palm
And tragedy from fingers; release omens
By sortilege, or tea leaves, riddle the inevitable
With playing cards, fiddle with pentagrams
Or barbituric acids, or dissect
The recurrent image into pre-conscious terrors—
To explore the womb, or tomb, or dreams; all these are usual
Pastimes and drugs, and features of the press:
And always will be, some of them especially
When there is distress of nations and perplexity
Whether on the shores of Asia, or in the Edgware Road.

One of the touching features of internet atheism is the belief that religion is dying and that there will then be a rational less troubled world. John Gray always takes the mickey out of such beliefs which seem to underpin new atheism.

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labarum
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Re: When secularization doesn't mean rationalism
« Reply #2 on Apr 27, 2012, 4:43am »

I have attended a few weddings in the last few years among those with no family religious affiliation and they all seemed rather slapped together affairs. It is as if they know this is supposed to be an important moment that should be solemnized through ritual but have no tradition to serve as its basis. So they throw together a couple of trite pop songs with their own personally written vows that have all the weight of a Rod McKuen poem. A few with some semblance of taste might opt for bits and pieces of things they saw in a royal wedding, but that's about all you get. The mode of dress among their friends seems more geared to clubbing than a wedding. The whole things ends up a sentimental pop culture mess. However, the receptions are usually first rate with excellent food and drink. They can't hold a ritual on a bet, but they do know how to throw a good party.

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elephantchang51
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Re: When secularization doesn't mean rationalism
« Reply #3 on Apr 27, 2012, 1:27pm »

Apr 26, 2012, 8:02pm, sandwiches wrote:

T.S. Eliot: Four Quartets
The Dry Salvages

To communicate with Mars, converse with spirits,
To report the behaviour of the sea monster,
Describe the horoscope, haruspicate or scry,
Observe disease in signatures, evoke
Biography from the wrinkles of the palm
And tragedy from fingers; release omens
By sortilege, or tea leaves, riddle the inevitable
With playing cards, fiddle with pentagrams
Or barbituric acids, or dissect
The recurrent image into pre-conscious terrors—
To explore the womb, or tomb, or dreams; all these are usual
Pastimes and drugs, and features of the press:
And always will be, some of them especially
When there is distress of nations and perplexity
Whether on the shores of Asia, or in the Edgware Road.

One of the touching features of internet atheism is the belief that religion is dying and that there will then be a rational less troubled world. John Gray always takes the mickey out of such beliefs which seem to underpin new atheism.

Enormous generalisation,this internet atheist believes there is little chance of religion dying in the forseeable future,and doubts it would lead to a more rational or less troubled world.Atheists are just as diverse in what they believe as any group,the only thing you can say with certainty is they disbelieve in the existence of god(s).

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'Live a good life.If there are gods and they are just,then they will not care how devout you have been,but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.If there are gods,but unjust,then you should not want to worship them.If there are no gods,then you will be gone,but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.'-Marcus Aurelius.

sandwiches
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Re: When secularization doesn't mean rationalism
« Reply #4 on Apr 27, 2012, 4:55pm »

Enormous generalisation,this internet atheist believes there is little chance of religion dying in the forseeable future,and doubts it would lead to a more rational or less troubled world.Atheists are just as diverse in what they believe as any group,the only thing you can say with certainty is they disbelieve in the existence of god(s).

True, I was thinking of the internet atheists who are most busy on the Internet.

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Quodlibeta: - the Blog
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Associated websites:

Quodlibeta: - the Blog Medieval Science and Philosophy Bede's Library - Faith and Reason

Quodlibeta: - the Blog
Medieval Science and Philosophy
Bede's Library - Faith and Reason