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Post by gnosticbishop on Oct 5, 2014 0:03:31 GMT
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.
As above, so below.
Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.
Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.
Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.
The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.
Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.
The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.
Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.
If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.
If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.
The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.
I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.
I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.
The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.
To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.
God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.
Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?
Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.
If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?
Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.
Regards
DL
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Post by sandwiches on Oct 5, 2014 17:31:02 GMT
The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.
Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil goodWell, (the other posters on this Board will have to forgive me) I did read that opening post. Just picking on the above example of 'arguement' I feel there is something lacking? You realise that Judaism is usually regarded as an Abrahamic faith? I have a faint suspicion that they were the first to mention Abraham. Have you ever heard the (possibly/probably apocryphal) story about the rabbis in Auschwitz putting God on trial - and finding him guilty? (then they prayed and went to bed): www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/wiesel-yes-we-really-did-put-god-trial Have you ever read Rabbi Irving Greenberg on how the Holocaust should affect Jewish theology? You must be interested in such matters? Why not post something explaining your interest and invite a rational discussion? (You might enjoy it) There are all sorts on here (Atheists, Christians, Australians...).
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Post by wraggy on Oct 6, 2014 5:50:16 GMT
You must be interested in such matters? Why not post something explaining your interest and invite a rational discussion? (You might enjoy it) There are all sorts on here (Atheists, Christians, Australians...). And sometimes those Atheists and Christians are at the same time..... Australians. Which just goes to show that people will talk to anyone on this forum.  |
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Post by domics on Oct 6, 2014 11:10:06 GMT
just to know, where is Hitler now according to your version of gnosticism?
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Post by gnosticbishop on Oct 6, 2014 17:36:16 GMT
The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.
Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil goodWell, (the other posters on this Board will have to forgive me) I did read that opening post. Just picking on the above example of 'arguement' I feel there is something lacking? You realise that Judaism is usually regarded as an Abrahamic faith? I have a faint suspicion that they were the first to mention Abraham. Have you ever heard the (possibly/probably apocryphal) story about the rabbis in Auschwitz putting God on trial - and finding him guilty? (then they prayed and went to bed): www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/wiesel-yes-we-really-did-put-god-trial Have you ever read Rabbi Irving Greenberg on how the Holocaust should affect Jewish theology? You must be interested in such matters? Why not post something explaining your interest and invite a rational discussion? (You might enjoy it) There are all sorts on here (Atheists, Christians, Australians...).As I said, the Jews do not bend the knee to a God they found guilty.Jews and Gnostics do not quite believe as most theists do. We both strive for and against God.Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it." Commentary because they know that anything they say of God is speculative and likely nonsense.
God is to be forever mysterious. That is why Gnostic Christians like me are perpetual seekers even after suffering apotheosis.
This thinking is the Gnostic Christian’s goal.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded
This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y
When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find.
Regards DL
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Post by gnosticbishop on Oct 6, 2014 17:46:02 GMT
just to know, where is Hitler now according to your version of gnosticism? We are Universalists and see all as children of the most high. Just as Jesus indicates.
Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect:
The way we basically look at things is that, yes, all are ultimately responsible for what they do, unless insane. If insane, then we cannot justly find him culpable for his evil deeds.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea
At the same time, we recognize that unless insane again, Hitler was not born to be what he became. He became that thanks to everyone who interacted with him. They must share his guilt. Now take that thinking to everyone, and are we not all responsible for all of us being what we are?
It is either we all deserve hell or we all deserve heaven. We are all in this together, alone.
Where would you put Hitler?
Regards DL
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Post by fortigurn on Oct 7, 2014 7:56:40 GMT
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish. As above, so below. Above. God condemned Christians to hell and extinction. Many Christians don't believe in hell. I'm one of them. wut. |
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Post by gnosticbishop on Oct 7, 2014 22:41:14 GMT
Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish. As above, so below. Above. God condemned Christians to hell and extinction. Many Christians don't believe in hell. I'm one of them. wut.
Are you a good man? Why?
Are you an evil man? Why?
Whatever you are, good or evil, is due to the environment you grew up in. Right?
You have to share the blame or praise for what you became from birth on with all those you have interacted with. Right?
If you see that then you should see that the same applies to all of us including Hitler.
Regards DL
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Post by fortigurn on Oct 8, 2014 1:18:45 GMT
Yes, because I choose to be. No, because I choose not to be. Wrong. Absolute gibberish. |
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Post by gnosticbishop on Oct 8, 2014 15:56:51 GMT
Yes, because I choose to be. No, because I choose not to be. Wrong. Absolute gibberish. Thanks for the well though out argument against. You have almost convinced me.
If you are good and not a product of your environment, you must have been born that way. Then evil people are naturally born evil. Is that correct?
Regards DL
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Post by ignorantianescia on Oct 8, 2014 16:19:53 GMT
GB, Fortigurn said he ascribes it to free will, the key word is "choose". Now it seems you're saying "okay, so if it isn't nurture, it must be nature". But what he said points in another direction.
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Post by domics on Oct 9, 2014 8:46:10 GMT
Gnosticbishop,
does your version of gnosticism assert the existence of the three orders of humans (psychics, pneumatics and hylics)?
If yes, what are they according to you?
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Post by gnosticbishop on Oct 9, 2014 15:15:02 GMT
GB, Fortigurn said he ascribes it to free will, the key word is "choose". Now it seems you're saying "okay, so if it isn't nurture, it must be nature". But what he said points in another direction. Thanks for pointing it out. I am now convinced.
Regards DL
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Post by gnosticbishop on Oct 9, 2014 15:21:17 GMT
Gnosticbishop, does your version of gnosticism assert the existence of the three orders of humans (psychics, pneumatics and hylics)? If yes, what are they according to you? We are all the same.
gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm
On Righteousness
The righteousness of God is a kind of sharing along with equality. There is equality in the heaven which is stretched out in all directions and contains the entire earth in its circle. The night reveals all the stars equally.
Gnostic Christians are Universalists so equality has to be a given.
Christianity discriminates against women and gays. Gnostics cannot and do not.
Regards DL
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Post by domics on Oct 9, 2014 15:49:16 GMT
gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm
On Righteousness
The righteousness of God is a kind of sharing along with equality. There is equality in the heaven which is stretched out in all directions and contains the entire earth in its circle. The night reveals all the stars equally.
Gnostic Christians are Universalists so equality has to be a given.
Christianity discriminates against women and gays. Gnostics cannot and do not.
Regards DL
what is the meaning of this from your source?: "For man God made all things to be common property. He brought the female to be with the male in common and in the same way united all the animals. He thus showed rightousness to be a universal sharing along with equality. But those who have been born in this way have denied the sharing which is the corollary of their origin and say Let him who has taken one woman keep her, whereas all can share her, just as the other animals show us. With view to the permanence of the race, he has implanted in males a strong and ardent desire which neither law nor custom nor any other restraint is able to destroy. For it is God´s decree."? |
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