Muslims discovered the New World before Columbus - Erdogan

[jamierobertson]

Thoughts?

Muslims discovered the Americas more than three centuries before Christopher Columbus, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said.

He made the claim during a conference of Latin American Muslim leaders in Istanbul, pointing to a diary entry in which Columbus mentioned a mosque on a hill in Cuba.

Mr Erdogan also said "Muslim sailors arrived in America in 1178".

He said he was willing to build a mosque at the site Columbus identified.

The Turkish president - whose AK Party is rooted in political Islam - gave no further evidence to back up his theory, instead stating: "Contacts between Latin America and Islam date back to the 12th Century."

Controversial article
Columbus is widely believed to have discovered the Americas in 1492, while trying to find a new route to India.

But in a disputed article published in 1996, historian Youssef Mroueh said Columbus' entry was proof that Muslims had reached the Americas first and that "the religion of Islam was widespread".

However many scholars believe the reference is metaphorical, describing an aspect of the mountain that resembled part of a mosque.

No Islamic structures have been found in America that pre-date Columbus.

Mr Erdogan said he thought "a mosque would go perfectly on the hill today" and that he would like to discuss building this with Cuba.

The first people to reach the Americas came from Asia. They are believed to have crossed the Behring Strait about 15,000 years ago.

The first European visitors to North America are widely thought to have been Norse explorers, about 500 years before Columbus.

Source: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30067490

[ignorantianescia]

Okay, so he's not only autocratic, he's also loony.

MacCulloch tells in A History of Christianity (paperback, pages 698 and 699) that Cortés did call the native temples in Mexico "mosques", for what it's worth. But we can be sure that Cortés wasn't being descriptive when he called them that! I bet the intended meaning was like "idolatrous shrine".

[sandwiches]

Interesting one.

Leif Erikson still got there first and I doubt Lief was Muslim (nor Christian)

Re ignorantianescia

But we can be sure that Cortés wasn't being descriptive when he called them that! I bet the intended meaning was like "idolatrous shrine".

Indeed. An interesting account here of a Spanish "raid" in Cornwall in 1595:

west-penwith.org.uk/raid.htm


This is an account and discussion about the Spanish attack on Mousehole, Newlyn and Penzance in 1595

It is often thought that the chapel of St. Mary in Penzance was destroyed in this attack but in the book by Peter Mound, “Pensans, The Holy Headland—1000 years of Faith and Fortune, St Mary’s Penzance,” this idea is refuted by the official report sent to the King of Spain by the commander of the Spanish raid that states:—

In this town we burned more than four hundred houses, some outlying hamlets and three ships which were laden with wine and other goods. The mosque where they gather for their conventicles was not burned because Captain Richard Burley, an English gentleman entertained in your Majesty’s Royal Navy, said that this mosque had first been English and that Mass had been celebrated in it previously. Friar Domingo Martinez, principal chaplain of the galleys, wrote two verses in English in which he declared the reason for not burning it and his trust in God that Mass would be celebrated in it again within two years. This done our men withdrew to another town called Newlyn, burning it and all the outlying houses.

[jamierobertson]

Am I right in saying that, at this time, Muslim influence in Iberia was such that Spaniards would be familiar with mosques and use the term generically to describe a non-Catholic place of worship? (In the case above, an anglican church I suppose)

[ignorantianescia]

Nov 17, 2014 11:43:42 GMT jamierobertson said:

Am I right in saying that, at this time, Muslim influence in Iberia was such that Spaniards would be familiar with mosques and use the term generically to describe a non-Catholic place of worship? (In the case above, an anglican church I suppose)

Yes, you are 100% correct in saying that.

[ignorantianescia]

What is wrong with Tayyip? On his personal history and his historical beliefs:

historynewsnetwork.org/article/157660

President Erdogan has recently come under intense criticism for his unwillingness to come to the aid of the beleaguered Syrian Kurds in the city of Kobani just across the Turkish border. Sadly, Erdogan’s behavior is not surprising as he has always pursued policies consistent with the image of himself as a great leader and his country as a regional hegemon and a global power. - See more at: historynewsnetwork.org/article/157660#sthash.GW4vMcmv.dpuf

[sandwiches]

Erdogan is an unpleasant piece of work. The Pope visited Turkey recently:

www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2014/12/01/pope-francis-was-not-tough-enough-with-turkey/

Pope Francis was not tough enough with Turkey

Erdogan raises "Islamophobia" in The West while refusing to acknowledge the Armenian genocide

[sandwiches]

President Erdogan is in the news again lately. He has a fondness for history, though possibly some of his claims lack a firm historical basis:

www.commentarymagazine.com/2014/11/23/erdogans-historical-truthiness/

I feel this theory of his is going a bit far:

worldnewsdailyreport.com/ottomans-were-the-first-to-reach-the-moon-says-turkish-president/

(I confess I spent 15 minutes checking whether he really claimed it).

[MedievalGirl]

This would be the same President who also proclaimed that Muslims were the first to assert that the Earth was round in the ninth century? Well they may have done so, but an Anglo-Saxon monk trumped them by a century. The Venerable Bede wrote that earth is 'round like a ball and not like a shield' in his book 'On the Reckoning of Time' written in the early eighth century.....

Enough said.

[ignorantianescia]

First of all, welcome, MedievalGirl. Judging from your username and your title, you'll probably like this subforum.

That's quite some fruitcake zoning from Erdogan. I wonder if this genre of pseudohistory is big in Turkey (as in bigger than Mythicism here) or whether it's the rehashing of some dead cook's writings (like Allegro's Mushroom Mythicism). Wherever it came from, it is apparently still widely taught in a certain school type according to the first article sandwiches posted:

Erdoğan may sound foolish, but the importance of his errors extends far beyond himself. Rather, they reflect the future of Turkey. Erdoğan is a product of an İmam Hatip education, the Turkish equivalent of a madrasa. Prior to Erdoğan’s rise, İmam Hatip graduates would primarily become mullahs or perhaps work in family businesses. Their lack of grounding in liberal arts and science disqualified them from most university programs and the government service which might follow. But Erdoğan has bolstered and promoted the İmam Hatips, so that their graduates now dominate Turkey’s bureaucracy. Erdoğan may be no historian, but he has become the rule rather than the exception for the Turkish government he leads. He has ensured that there are thousands if not tens of thousands of protégés marching in lockstep behind him, all of whom treat fact with disdain and embrace mindless revisionism. Welcome to the future of Turkey.