Richard Carrier, er, "coming out"

[jamierobertson]

Dear Richard,

"Wanting to have lots of sex with multiple partners" (otherwise known as "being horny" and loosely related to "having no self-esteem") is not a legitimate "sexual orientation", and does not require us to extend any particular sympathy or acceptance to you.

Best wishes,

Jamie.

[ignorantianescia]

No! I guess that takes the sting out of my joke about Carrier based on a Ben-Sira text.

Oh well, it's up to his to choose his, erm... lifestyle.

[labarum]

Feb 20, 2015 13:21:29 GMT jamierobertson said:

Dear Richard,

"Wanting to have lots of sex with multiple partners" (otherwise known as "being horny" and loosely related to "having no self-esteem") is not a legitimate "sexual orientation", and does not require us to extend any particular sympathy or acceptance to you.

Best wishes,

Jamie.

You may translate that article as "My wife found out I was sleeping with some of my fanbabes and decided she didn't want to support me in my hobby any longer. My choices are to find gainful employment or some rich atheist girls who will indulge me."

[unkleE]

Each to their own, but I feel that post of his was a case of "too much information"! I didn't read the comments, but they may have been "information overload".

[evangelion]

Several years ago, after about seventeen years of marriage, I had a few brief affairs, because I found myself unequipped to handle certain unusual circumstances in our marriage, which I won’t discuss here because they intrude on my wife’s privacy.

Wow! I love the way he just chucks this out there as if it's no big deal. 'A few brief affairs'?! Good grief, he's even more of a tosser than I thought.

Had I known several years ago that polyamory was an actual option that works for people, I might have realized this sooner, and dealt with it better.

Has he been living under a rock all his life? Polyamory isn't exactly new, even in Western society. Utterly bizarre.

And I am going to strive from here on out to live that way as ethically and honestly as I should

...the way you didn't with your marriage. OK.

[evangelion]

In the comments he says this:

Jen is capable of earning far better than I (and right now chooses to earn only about twice what I do so she can go to school as well)

I have no words!

[fortigurn]

Translation, 'My wife and I are divorcing because I had multiple affairs and she doesn't want to support me financially for the rest of my life, but none of this is my fault, it's because I'm polyamorous and society has forced unrealistic expectations on me, like being honest, acting with integrity, and not cheating on my spouse, so I actually deserve sympathy and respect'.

[labarum]

Somewhere Tim O'Neill is rolling his eyes.

[sandwiches]

Several years ago, after about seventeen years of marriage, I had a few brief affairs, because I found myself unequipped to handle certain unusual circumstances in our marriage, which I won’t discuss here because they intrude on my wife’s privacy.

but Jen hadn’t come out to her family, so out of respect for her privacy I hadn’t blogged about it or discussed it publicly

But Jen has always been and remains a very private person. Out of continuing respect for her privacy, I will not speak publicly about her sex life or private life. Questions about me I’ll answer. But anything that touches too closely on her private affairs, those details are off limits.

He is trying to explain a rift with his wife while making a great show of not blaming his wife nor revealing anything about her private life? (even though no-one realised he was married, nor had any interest in such matters, nor in his personal life at all, let alone his wife's personal life, which he has now pretty well advertised over the internet?).

What a curious person he is, though the style is very familiar to anyone who has read his attemps at academic work?

[timoneill]

Feb 22, 2015 15:12:59 GMT labarum said:

Somewhere Tim O'Neill is rolling his eyes.

Shaking his head in amazement, actually. Just when I didn't think my opinion of this guy could sink any lower ...

[jamierobertson]

Carrier gets quite ratty at some of the comments which (sometimes rather gently) question his integrity. I know you shouldn't judge the quality of an argument by the character of its proponent, but he really does come across like a little twerp here.

[ignorantianescia]

Feb 23, 2015 14:16:22 GMT jamierobertson said:

Carrier gets quite ratty at some of the comments which (sometimes rather gently) question his integrity. I know you shouldn't judge the quality of an argument by the character of its proponent, but he really does come across like a little twerp here.

He has a tendency to also do that on other subjects when he gets argued into a corner (do you remember his repeated insulting declarations about Fortigurn in the aftermath of Did Jesus Exist? ?). It reeks like confirming evidence for labarum, Fortigurn and Sandwiches's suggestions.

[labarum]

This article might be the best response yet:

theyetisroar.wordpress.com/2015/02/23/dr-richard-carrier-phd-a-creepy-dishonest-hypocrite/

The title says it all.

[gakuseidon]

Feb 22, 2015 16:03:15 GMT sandwiches said:

Several years ago, after about seventeen years of marriage, I had a few brief affairs, because I found myself unequipped to handle certain unusual circumstances in our marriage, which I won’t discuss here because they intrude on my wife’s privacy.

but Jen hadn’t come out to her family, so out of respect for her privacy I hadn’t blogged about it or discussed it publicly

But Jen has always been and remains a very private person. Out of continuing respect for her privacy, I will not speak publicly about her sex life or private life. Questions about me I’ll answer. But anything that touches too closely on her private affairs, those details are off limits.

He is trying to explain a rift with his wife while making a great show of not blaming his wife nor revealing anything about her private life? (even though no-one realised he was married, nor had any interest in such matters, nor in his personal life at all, let alone his wife's personal life, which he has now pretty well advertised over the internet?).

Yes, 100% agree with you. What a douche-bag that guy is! He is throwing his wife under the bus. "I had a few brief affairs, because I found myself unequipped to handle certain unusual circumstances in our marriage, which I won’t discuss here because they intrude on my wife’s privacy." Surely he must have understood how his readers would take this? Why word it like that? Why mention his wife's privacy here at all in this context?

Far better if he had said something like, "My wife and I have had an open relationship for a couple of years, but it didn't work out, so we are splitting amicably." Or "I had a few affairs, for reasons I won't go into, to respect mine and my wife's privacy."

Good for him if he wants to be polyamorous. It just means he is an ordinary male. As long as he isn't lying to anyone, good luck to him!

Especially noxious is his response to Ken Ammi. Ken wrote:

"As Ricardo Montalban, the original most interesting man in the world, put it, “A great lover is someone who can satisfy one woman her entire lifetime and be satisfied with one woman his entire lifetime. It is not someone who goes from woman to woman; any dog can do that.’”

To which Carrier responded:

"Because sex with women is like f**king a dog.

Sometimes you won’t realize how sexist remarks like this are.

But then maybe we shouldn’t be quoting a Catholic for life wisdom. Or opinions about women."

Unbelievably unfair reading of Ken's post.

[gakuseidon]

By the way, I found this interesting blog post by Carrier on his FTB blog, posted in Aug 2013. The post is called "Our Mythical Campaign against Sex", and is about Sexual Harassment policies for Atheist meetings.

Carrier writes:

Indeed, many of my friends in the atheist community are polyamorous, or actively participate in the BDSM or swinging communities, some even have orgies and sex parties... at atheist conferences! And you know what? All of them tend to be the most enthusiastic supporters of Atheism+. And of sound sexual harassment policies...

I’m not poly [or wasn’t when I wrote this] and [would up to the time of writing] politely decline invitations to sex parties, and plenty of vanilla and monogamous folk are A+ supporters. But the haters certainly aren’t much in evidence among the poly and alt sex crowd I know. Possibly because they don’t understand compassion and consent and thus would not understand how ethical alternative sex cultures actually are. Polyamory and swinging and even the attending of orgies requires more ethical behavior and more careful attention to boundaries and consent than traditional sexual relationships do. And people who are ethical enough to be accepted in those communities are the very people who get Atheism+ and why it is needed.

The comments in square brackets above seem to have been added by Carrier in the last few days. Again, good luck to him if he wants to be polyamorous. It sounds like the meetings he goes to are a lot of fun.