|
Brexit
Apr 24, 2017 14:16:46 GMT
Post by evangelion on Apr 24, 2017 14:16:46 GMT
It's received a surprising amount of attention, and a large British online forum I visit regularly is buzzing madly about it. Good times!
|
|
|
Brexit
Apr 24, 2017 19:08:22 GMT
Post by ignorantianescia on Apr 24, 2017 19:08:22 GMT
It's received a surprising amount of attention, and a large British online forum I visit regularly is buzzing madly about it. Good times! That it did catch their attention really surprises me, but let's face it, it's not as if they weren't warned by a reputable, reasonable person: www.bbc.com/news/uk-36115138Or if you prefer the less neutral, added-irony version: www.express.co.uk/news/politics/663665/Barack-Obama-Britain-back-queue-BrexitBut I am not sure any FTA would have been finalised when Trump would leave office anyway, such agreements take around seven years to negotiate, on the short side.
|
|
|
Brexit
Apr 24, 2017 21:42:17 GMT
Post by James Hannam on Apr 24, 2017 21:42:17 GMT
It's received a surprising amount of attention, and a large British online forum I visit regularly is buzzing madly about it. Good times! One of the many problems with Trump is he just takes his opinions from the last person he spoke to. He's already forgotten all about this. Anyone who has been paying any attention knows that the US/EU trade deal will never happen. There isn't even a majority for it in the European Parliament. This is a shame as free trade makes us all richer. Whether there is a UK/US deal is another matter. It is more likely simply because there are fewer moving parts. By the way, the election going on in the U.K. at the moment makes Brexit even more unstoppable. Remainers really do need to face up to reality. As you say, good times. J
|
|
|
Brexit
May 1, 2017 5:59:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by ydoethur on May 1, 2017 5:59:47 GMT
Actually Fortigurn I don't think that's a helpful or accurate remark. But the argument that was heard the most, the argument which represented the UK to the world, was "We need to keep foreigners out of our country". When I visited the UK myself earlier this year, I was unsurprised to hear that message repeated wherever I went. The fortunate exceptions were the Christians I met, who were overwhelmingly Remainers, and who expressed their deep concern with the deliberately divisive and anti-foreigner Brexit campaign. I never actually saw a copy of that poster Fortigurn. So it was clearly less important than you assume. The leave pledge causing most grief is the 350 million a week to the NHS - that's been reneged upon instantly and has not been well received. I just wonder - which part of the UK did you visit? Bearing in mind it is a very parochial country and things can vary from area to area. Or did you visit several and find it consistent?
|
|
|
Brexit
May 1, 2017 7:21:33 GMT
Post by James Hannam on May 1, 2017 7:21:33 GMT
On political posters, you rarely see any nowadays.
A decade ago, political parties spent a fortune on poster advertising. Nowadays, they rely on the media and social media to disseminate them. It is much cheaper than paying for a full campaign.
So the Farage poster that Fortigurn posted only existed in material form for the press event when Farage launched it. After that, it was only virtual.
J
|
|
|
Brexit
May 1, 2017 11:38:27 GMT
Post by evangelion on May 1, 2017 11:38:27 GMT
So the Farage poster that Fortigurn posted only existed in material form for the press event when Farage launched it. After that, it was only virtual. And as a virtual poster, it spread faster and further than any material poster could. It was a rallying cry for Brexiteers all over the UK, along with the '£350 million for the NHS' lie.
|
|
|
Brexit
May 5, 2017 18:51:28 GMT
Post by fortigurn on May 5, 2017 18:51:28 GMT
I never actually saw a copy of that poster Fortigurn. It was on social media regularly. But the message of that poster was the consistent message of Brexit. That same message was all over the place in numerous different forms, especially on social media; "Kick out the brown people! Kick out the brown people! UK for the English! No more Muslims! Hindus go home!", and all the other lovely sentiments which embodied the Brexit message. I visited quite a range of areas. 1. Hertfordshire. 2. Lincolnshire (relatives here). 3. Sussex (there were some real specimens in Rye, which I found odd given the fact that there's a distinctive non-British presence; interestingly the most broadminded person I met there was a Cockney from the East End, who described his frustration with the place and its parochial attitudes in some detail. He told me how he had been stabbed and robbed in Spain one time, but didn't bear the Spanish any ill will, and had something of a "You get all kinds, don't you" attitude to the episode). 4. Somerset. 5. London. 6. Newcastle. 7. Salisbury. 8. Buckinghamshire (relatives here). Couple of other places out in the country which I can't remember. Generally out in the country I found the most conservative attitudes, especially among my own relatives. One woman in Lincolnshire (friend of my mother), complained to me at length about the Poles, who (according to her), rent a house on the cheap (a dozen of them living in it at a time), then do all these jobs (taking jobs from English people), and "send all the money back to Poland so we don't get any benefit from it". Exactly how this is achieved I have no idea (they are renting the house and buying food, for a start). Her husband (a more moderate individual), objected that they don't take jobs from the British because they "only do "the jobs which British people refuse to do", that they "work very hard, harder than we do", and that they "pay their taxes just like we do", so they obviously aren't just sending all their money to Poland. His wife went so far as to acknowledge that some Poles start up their own businesses in England, but still insisted they send all the money back to Poland. England, such a fascinating place, such interesting people.
|
|
|
Brexit
May 6, 2017 13:53:29 GMT
Post by evangelion on May 6, 2017 13:53:29 GMT
I lived in the UK for 6 years, and Fortigurn's experience is consistent with my own.
Anti-EU sentiment increases the further you move from London. It peaks in white middle class enclaves (e.g. affluent parts of the West Country, where the locals melt down in a screaming fit about 'open borders' if they spot a single black person on the same bus) and multicultural working class areas (e.g. West Midlands & Black Country) where most of the opposition still comes from whites.
However, once you reach Scotland, sanity reasserts itself and pro-EU sentiment returns.
|
|
|
Brexit
May 8, 2017 9:16:07 GMT
Post by James Hannam on May 8, 2017 9:16:07 GMT
I lived in the UK for 6 years, and Fortigurn's experience is consistent with my own. Anti-EU sentiment increases the further you move from London. It peaks in white middle class enclaves (e.g. affluent parts of the West Country, where the locals melt down in a screaming fit about 'open borders' if they spot a single black person on the same bus) and multicultural working class areas (e.g. West Midlands & Black Country) where most of the opposition still comes from whites. However, once you reach Scotland, sanity reasserts itself and pro-EU sentiment returns. |I do sometimes wonder if the EU is actually a cult. It's hard to explain the deranged opinions of some of its supporters otherwise. Anyway, it is interesting to compare the anti-EU UK to pro-EU France. In the UK there has never been a successful extremist party, far left or far right. Even UKIP, more farcical than fascist, peaked at only 11% in the last general election and is now in free fall. In contrast, over a third of French voters have just voted for a genuine 100% proof fascist for president. I'll take Brexit Britain any day. Best wishes James
|
|
|
Brexit
May 8, 2017 11:19:19 GMT
Post by evangelion on May 8, 2017 11:19:19 GMT
It's hard to explain the deranged opinions of some of its supporters otherwise. Six examples, please? Er, what? They voted overwhelmingly for a centrist patriot, and rejected the fascist. Le Pen's party is so abominable to the public, she had to stand down as leader in a vain attempt to improve her meagre share of the vote. The French hate fascists, and they've never forgotten where Le Pen comes from. Even her own father (himself a notorious fascist) publicly declared that she is not fit for president. Oh, and on the subject of UKIP...
|
|
|
Brexit
May 8, 2017 18:28:57 GMT
Post by ignorantianescia on May 8, 2017 18:28:57 GMT
Sankari, James wasn't saying that a majority of the French voted for Le Pen, but that over a third of voters did. That is correct, about 34% voted for La Russe. But that's mostly a result of the run-off set-up of French presidential elections, James. I'm not convinced that a national run-off election between Farron and Farage would reflect very well on the UK either, but we will never know and the same would be true for other countries. Also, UKIP actually was the largest British party in the 2014 EP elections. Of course, a question like that isn't hypothetical anymore for the United States, for which we know the depressing answer.
|
|
|
Brexit
May 9, 2017 3:12:32 GMT
Post by evangelion on May 9, 2017 3:12:32 GMT
Oops you're right, I misread James' reply. Thanks mate.
|
|
|
Brexit
May 19, 2017 20:59:59 GMT
Post by ignorantianescia on May 19, 2017 20:59:59 GMT
If you follow the developments about Brexit, this may also be useful to read: An attempt at an interview by Die Zeit (a leftish centrist liberal German newspaper) with Nigel Farage about possible Russian money strings. Brexit also comes up briefly, but there isn't really anything important getting mentioned there. www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2017-05/nigel-farage-brexit-ukip-russia-contactsIt is known that Russia has bankrolled some European populist groups with similar profiles as UKIP and in fact many European populists accept money from foreign groups (probably quite huge sums in some cases).
|
|
|
Brexit
May 20, 2017 6:31:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by ydoethur on May 20, 2017 6:31:00 GMT
I never actually saw a copy of that poster Fortigurn. It was on social media regularly. But the message of that poster was the consistent message of Brexit. That same message was all over the place in numerous different forms, especially on social media; " The key point about Brexit is almost none of its supporters are on social media. So almost any sharing of such a poster that was 'everywhere' would have been done by remianers who are hardly representative of leavers! This is also one reason why we were all blindsided by the depth of anti-European feeing - the people who voted out simply didn't take part in such conversations. Thank you, so a wide range of areas. The answer is both your inlaws are right. The EE do come here and work in low paid jobs, all the hours God sends and pay their taxes. They live very cheaply in HME (houses in multiple occupancy) - they probably spend no more than £200-£250 a month on surviving. Let's say they come and do fruit picking in Gloucestershire for four months under those conditions. The British workers ask double the money, so they don't get the jobs. Then - this is the crucial part - they can go back home and live very comfortably for the rest of the year on what they've earned because the £5,000 they've saved is worth Z22,000, which is ample for a very good lifestyle in Krakow or Warsaw for the remaining eight months of the year. That is why while headline immigration from the EU was very slightly lower last year than non-EU migration - 284,000 to 289,000 - that is the wrong measure to use. It is seasonal migration that causes the tensions. And on those figures, 189,000 non-EU migrants got NI numbers last year (although many more may be working illegally) while a staggering 654,000 EU citizens did. The hope of those who voted out based on immigration is that leaving the EU will force employers to increase wages to attract workers from Britain itself. I am dubious about hat because I think with an economic contraction there will be fewer jobs anyway. But it's not a ridiculous point of view. It should also be noted that such workers are eligible to claim tax credits and child benefit even if their children are not in this country, which is where the comment on 'sending money home' comes from. That frankly is a reflection of the stupidity of our welfare system, not the EU. However, it does cause resentment.
|
|
|
Brexit
May 20, 2017 17:44:33 GMT
Post by evangelion on May 20, 2017 17:44:33 GMT
The key point about Brexit is almost none of its supporters are on social media. So almost any sharing of such a poster that was 'everywhere' would have been done by remianers who are hardly representative of leavers! That is absolutely untrue. Social media was absolutely awash with with Brexiteers, and pro-Brexit groups. It still is!
|
|