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Post by elephantchang51 on Feb 15, 2011 12:11:18 GMT
This thread reminded me of the debate between WLC,and the moral philosopher Shelly Kagan on youtube,the latter certainly holds that objective morals and ethics are possible without God.Worth a look....
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Post by davedodo007 on Feb 16, 2011 0:37:08 GMT
I believe are morals come from social group behaviour, this behaviour can still be seen in nature today where co-operation and empathy help the social group survive and prosper. As humans have become self aware and are now able to conceptualize our behaviour, this has led to our morality becoming subjective. Though not an ideal situation and open to exploitation, on the whole it as been progressive and our social mores have reflected this.
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Post by eckadimmock on Feb 16, 2011 2:15:47 GMT
No. I was thinking more about democracies and human rights, free education and health care, benefits for the sick and unemployed etc. If you'll pardon my saying so, I think you're taking rather a lot for granted. These things are pretty unusual in human history and even today: They're not products of people getting what they want but of Western society (and the Christian influence is undeniable). What sort of society secularism would produce remains to be seen: the 20th century was an experiment, but long term effects may take a while to become evident. We've certainly become more tolerant of social differences, but I suspect there has been a loss of community and humanitarian values.
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Post by davedodo007 on Feb 18, 2011 1:28:55 GMT
No. I was thinking more about democracies and human rights, free education and health care, benefits for the sick and unemployed etc. I'm a optimist what can I say. Loss of community is probably due to TV, people would rather watch soap operas then talk to their neighbours. What humanitarian values have we lost?
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