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Post by ignorantianescia on Mar 20, 2012 18:46:07 GMT
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Post by fortigurn on Mar 29, 2012 3:20:10 GMT
I have seen Loftus lauding his OTF high and low, and anticipated some kind of killer argument. Instead it turned out to be a simple principle which has been discussed by philosophers and religious commentators for around 2,000 years, not least because it's one of the key reasons why people change religion (as opposed to moving to atheism). It's a complete let down.
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Post by unkleE on Mar 29, 2012 3:34:34 GMT
I have seen Loftus lauding his OTF high and low, and anticipated some kind of killer argument. Instead it turned out to be a simple principle which has been discussed by philosophers and religious commentators for around 2,000 years, not least because it's one of the key reasons why people change religion (as opposed to moving to atheism). It's a complete let down. Sshhhh! |
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Post by ignorantianescia on Mar 29, 2012 6:57:54 GMT
I have seen Loftus lauding his OTF high and low, and anticipated some kind of killer argument. Instead it turned out to be a simple principle which has been discussed by philosophers and religious commentators for around 2,000 years, not least because it's one of the key reasons why people change religion (as opposed to moving to atheism). It's a complete let down. Ah, but we only say that because we haven't really engaged with the OTF!  Well there's something new to it, to try to turn it into an argument against religion he included a completely dubious default position, agnosticism. Of course, that gives non-believers an advantage and he always defends that move spectacularly along the lines of: "To what religion should I compare non-belief? [lists Muslim terrorists, KKK, snake-handling Pentecostals, etc.]." Astonishingly convincing if I may say so. But yeah, it's pretty vacuous. |
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Post by neodawson on Jun 7, 2012 20:04:06 GMT
Yeah my first thought in regards to Loftus's OFT was that the outsider would have to be open-minded to the teachings of the faith in question. One personal example was when I first heard about the Rat Temple in India, I thought it was rather strange and disgusting. But then I found out why people there let rats run wild through the temple. Still don't agree with it, but now I understand the reasoning behind it and it makes sense from that perspective. news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/06/0628_040628_tvrats.html |
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Post by unkleE on Jun 7, 2012 23:35:03 GMT
CS Lewis commented that it is impossible to get outside of all values and beliefs, but if we could, then we'd have no basis for choosing a new value or belief.
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Post by neodawson on Jun 8, 2012 0:05:19 GMT
CS Lewis commented that it is impossible to get outside of all values and beliefs, but if we could, then we'd have no basis for choosing a new value or belief. That's a vey good point. We are certainly conditioned by our cultural upbringings, but that doesn't mean our whole outlooks are determined by them. I mean I wonder how Loftus and others explain their rejection of their religious upbringing for example. |
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Post by unkleE on Jun 9, 2012 0:57:42 GMT
That's a vey good point. We are certainly conditioned by our cultural upbringings, but that doesn't mean our whole outlooks are determined by them. I mean I wonder how Loftus and others explain their rejection of their religious upbringing for example. I think he thinks he has been brave and path-finding while we who don't follow are delusional and recalcitrant. |
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Post by neodawson on Jun 9, 2012 2:23:11 GMT
I think he thinks he has been brave and path-finding while we who don't follow are delusional and recalcitrant. Yeah that sounds about right. ;D |
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Post by chavoux on Jul 8, 2015 13:07:19 GMT
David Marshall (Christ the Tao blog) has also written a book addressing it: How Jesus passes the Outsider Test: the inside story.
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