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Post by teajay on Mar 15, 2010 8:11:00 GMT
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deef
Bachelor of the Arts
Posts: 87
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Post by deef on Mar 15, 2010 10:54:44 GMT
In what context did he call the pope a nazi? I don't see that in the article. Not that I could imagine a context in which it is appropiate, but still... I'd like to know.
His opinion on 'creating saints' is not that shocking imho.
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Post by Al Moritz on Mar 15, 2010 12:01:48 GMT
If this record is correct, I find it incredible - not that Dawkins would stoop so low, but that other more mature associates don't disown him. Nevermind, Tim will continue to defend Dawkins anyway  |
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Post by turoldus on Mar 15, 2010 13:15:02 GMT
If this record is correct, I find it incredible - not that Dawkins would stoop so low, but that other more mature associates don't disown him. Why should they? Even The Independent calls him a "former Nazi" and talks about his "supposedly" involuntary enrollment in the Hitler Youth. Dawkins is just joining in the smear-game. |
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Post by noons on Mar 15, 2010 14:21:45 GMT
If this record is correct, I find it incredible - not that Dawkins would stoop so low, but that other more mature associates don't disown him. Nevermind, Tim will continue to defend Dawkins anyway I actually really appreciate Tim's contributions here, so I don't see a reason to bash someone just for disagreeing. |
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deef
Bachelor of the Arts
Posts: 87
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Post by deef on Mar 15, 2010 14:25:02 GMT
Nevermind, Tim will continue to defend Dawkins anyway I actually really appreciate Tim's contributions here, so I don't see a reason to bash someone just for disagreeing. Agreed. |
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Post by Al Moritz on Mar 15, 2010 14:38:53 GMT
Nevermind, Tim will continue to defend Dawkins anyway I actually really appreciate Tim's contributions here, so I don't see a reason to bash someone just for disagreeing. I appreciate many of his contributions too, don't worry. |
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Post by eckadimmock on Mar 15, 2010 18:56:16 GMT
Actually, it may have been somewhat of an own goal for the atheist convention. The letters to the Sydney Morning Herald this morning are rather irked about this and his comment that a parliamentarian was "as stupid as an earthworm". www.smh.com.au/national/letters/reasoned-arguments-needed-not-insults-20100315-q9i3.html. It's kind of interesting: we have a catholic cardinal and a Muslim sheik who regularly cause outrage by saying things about society, gays or women. An atheist prelate causing offence in the popular press is rather a novelty. |
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Post by Al Moritz on Mar 15, 2010 19:47:28 GMT
Excellent comments in that link, thanks (btw, when copying into your URL window, get rid of the final dot). |
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Post by sandwiches on Mar 15, 2010 20:29:36 GMT
Dawkins seems trather more polite towards Islam:
"I don't think we should go out of our way to insult Islam because it doesn't do any good to get your head cut off," he continued. "But we should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you."
Apparently he accepts Mohammed was a prophet?
And re:
but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you.
Well, that will show the Islamists?
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Post by sandwiches on Mar 15, 2010 20:46:14 GMT
Don't suppose Melanie Phillips is everyone's cup of tea but she seems to have an easy target here: www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/dawkins-preaches-to-the-deluded-against-the-divine/story-e6frg6zo-1225841086925Dawkins preaches to the deluded against the divine
* Melanie Phillips
* From: The Australian
* March 16, 2010 12:00AM
LIKE revivalists from an alternative universe, 2500 hardcore believers in the absence of religion packed into the Global Atheists Convention in Melbourne last weekend to give a hero's welcome to the high priest of belief in unbelief, Richard Dawkins.
The bestselling author of The God Delusion was similarly fawned over by the Australian media, which uncritically lapped up everything he said.
This was even after (or perhaps because) he referred to the Pope as a Nazi, which managed to combine defamation of the pontiff with implicit Holocaust denial.
By comparison, Family First senator Steve Fielding may feel he got off lightly when Dawkins described him merely as more stupid than an earthworm.
For someone who has made a career out of telling everyone how much more tolerant the world would be if only religion were obliterated from the human psyche, Dawkins manages to appear remarkably intolerant towards anyone who disagrees with him.She never seems to have quite forgiven him for this: Indeed, he seems almost to believe that, since everyone who believes in God is stupid or evil and Christians are stupid and evil because they believe in God, those who oppose him must be Christian and can be treated with contempt.
I had first-hand experience of this when, addressing an audience of US atheists, he accused me of "lying for Jesus" by misquoting him. This came as something of a surprise since I am a Jew. Moreover, far from me misquoting him, which was not the case, he had in fact ascribed to me words that had been written by someone else. |
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Post by unkleE on Mar 15, 2010 23:43:27 GMT
It's kind of interesting: we have a catholic cardinal and a Muslim sheik who regularly cause outrage by saying things about society, gays or women. An atheist prelate causing offence in the popular press is rather a novelty. Isn't it fun being an Aussie!? Certainly not a cultural wasteland!!  |
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Post by timoneill on Mar 16, 2010 19:28:06 GMT
If this record is correct, I find it incredible - not that Dawkins would stoop so low, but that other more mature associates don't disown him. Nevermind, Tim will continue to defend Dawkins anyway No, actually, I won't. Whatever the context and even as some kind of joke, calling Ratzinger a Nazi is a cheap smear. So I won't defend him at all - that was pathetic. I actually really appreciate Tim's contributions here, so I don't see a reason to bash someone just for disagreeing. I appreciate many of his contributions too, don't worry. Then it would have been nice if you had given me a bit more credit or at least waited until I said something on the matter before commenting on my position. |
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Post by Al Moritz on Mar 16, 2010 20:10:19 GMT
Then it would have been nice if you had given me a bit more credit or at least waited until I said something on the matter before commenting on my position. Point taken. Please accept my apologies. |
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Post by zameel on Mar 16, 2010 23:56:48 GMT
From a Muslim perspective, one thing many have noticed is a hardening of attitudes to Islam by the new pope. John Paul had a friendly attitude to Islam and Muslims, and was greatly admired (by even the likes of the Taliban as a man of peace) and was mourned by Muslim leaders throughout the world. However, Joseph Ratzinger's judgemental and harsh attitude to Islam and Muslims, his attack against interreligious dialogue, bias towards Israel, and audience with anti-Islam bigots like Oriana Fallaci, has made him disreputable in the eyes of many Muslims. Two Western Muslim scholars I admire, Abdal Hakim Murad and Hamza Yusuf, write/speak about the pope here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=onX9kGF3uYswww.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/AHM-Benedict.htm |
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