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Post by ignorantianescia on Dec 14, 2014 14:05:12 GMT
This topic is a follow-up to the topic Secularism and you from 2012. The questions certainly assume more uniformity on issues than is necessary, so if you feel it is important to differentiate, please do so. And there's a lot of questions this time, so feel free to drop some out. 1 Should the government collect a tax from church members for the churches?2 Should churches receive monetary support from the government?3 Should churches participate in public displays of mourning like state funerals if requested?4 Should churches participate in public ceremonies like the inauguration of a head-of-state, the installation of a government or a royal marriage if requested?5 Should the government tax churches?6 Should the government prioritise official representatives of a religion over lay people when seeking consultation on matters that affect religion?7 Should religious schools be required to teach subjects that are controversial in some religious communities, like evolution or sex ed?8 Should the government cooperate with religious charities?9 Should the government interfere in a religious practice like circumcision?10 Should religious political parties be required to adhere to non-discrimination standards that churches do not have to observe? What about religious schools and religious charities?11 Should religious symbolism be banned on public premises (like the ban on religious symbols in French public schools)?12 Should the government obstruct certain religious groups (often dubbed cults) if there is evidence that the practices are not technically coercive but can reasonably seen as financially exploitative?13 Should religious heritage be explicitly mentioned in any constitution if one applies to your country?14 What role would religion ideally have in a national curriculum?15 Should the government return places of worship that have in the distant past been appropriated by one religious group from the other or in any other way impose redress?16 Should the government recognise some religious holidays such as Easter and Christmas? Should there be more accommodation for other groups?17 Should the government allow religious courts as arbitration tribunals?Change: The bullet points have been replaced with numbers. Thanks for the suggestion, UnkleE. Later change: The question about the constitution has been edited and a typo has been fixed. |
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Post by unkleE on Dec 14, 2014 20:41:57 GMT
Hey IN, can I suggest you edit your post to make them all numbered rather than dot points - makes easier reference.
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Post by evangelion on Dec 15, 2014 2:03:40 GMT
1 Should the government collect a tax from church members for the churches?No. No. No. No. No, unless they are found to be profit-making enterprises. Yes. It makes sense to prioritise those who represent the body of people who will be most affected. Yes. Yes. Only if it is considered detrimental (e.g. FGM). Circumcision is less clear-cut (if you'll pardon the pun) because it's a practise with support from secular medical science. Yes to all three. The moment these institutions enter the public sphere they become subject to the same rules affecting everyone else in the public sphere. Yes. Yes. No. Comparative religious studies. Ideally, yes. In practice I fear this would be impossible without creating new problems. The government should recognise any holiday which is either inherently secular or has at least been successfully secularised. It should not recognise religious holidays as religious holidays.No. |
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Post by James Hannam on Dec 15, 2014 13:21:16 GMT
1 Should the government collect a tax from church members for the churches?
No.
2 Should churches receive monetary support from the government?
Not for religious purposes.
3 Should churches participate in public displays of mourning like state funerals if requested?
Yes.
4 Should churches participate in public ceremonies like the inauguration of a head-of-state, the installation of a government or a royal marriage if requested?
Yes.
5 Should the government tax churches?
Only on commercial activities. Otherwise, treat them as charities.
6 Should the government prioritise official representatives of a religion over lay people when seeking consultation on matters that affect religion?
Yes, in as much as changes directly effect them and not others
7 Should religious schools be required to teach subjects that are controversial in some religious communities, like evolution or sex ed?
Yes.
8 Should the government cooperate with religious charities?
Yes.
9 Should the government interfere in a religious practice like circumcision?
No, unless it can otherwise be shown to be harmful. NB: FGM is not widely recognised as a religious practice.
10 Should religious political parties be required to adhere to non-discrimination standards that churches do not have to observe? What about religious schools and religious charities?
Yes.
11 Should religious symbolism be banned on public premises (like the ban on religious symbols in French public schools)?
No.
12 Should the government obstruct certain religious groups (often dubbed cults) if there is evidence that the practices are not technically coercive but can reasonably seen as financially exploitative?
No. Adults should be allowed to mess up their lives if they wish.
13 Should religious heritage be explicitly mentioned in the constitution?
What constitution?
14 What role would religion ideally have in a national curriculum?
In as much as it is part of the cultural inheritance, it should be taught.
15 Should the government return places of worship that have in the distant past been appropriate by one religious group from the other or in any other way impose redress?
No.
16 Should the government recognise some religious holidays such as Easter and Christmas? Should there be more accommodation for other groups?
Minorities should be entitled to days off work for their major festivals, made up at others times as necessary.
17 Should the government allow religious courts as arbitration tribunals?
If both parties have freely agreed to be bound, the Government should not step in.
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Post by ignorantianescia on Dec 15, 2014 15:23:31 GMT
13 Should religious heritage be explicitly mentioned in the constitution?What constitution? Good one, I forgot that the United Kingdom doesn't have a (codified) constitution. The question was inspired by the discussion about the European constitution. Of course that was a discussion that also applied to the UK. I've edited the question so it can also cover that debate. 1 Should the government collect a tax from church members for the churches?No. 2 Should churches receive monetary support from the government?No. Of course, funding for maintaining monuments is fine. 3 Should churches participate in public displays of mourning like state funerals if requested?Yes. 4 Should churches participate in public ceremonies like the inauguration of a head-of-state, the installation of a government or a royal marriage if requested?Yes. 5 Should the government tax churches?No, not if they operate as not-for-profit organisations. Otherwise they should pay a corporation tax. 6 Should the government prioritise official representatives of a religion over lay people when seeking consultation on matters that affect religion?Generally yes, always yes for administrative issues, but if the matter involves 'folk religion' the government should get in touch with lay people on an equal footing with official representatives. 7 Should religious schools be required to teach subjects that are controversial in some religious communities, like evolution or sex ed?Yes. 8 Should the government cooperate with religious charities?Yes. 9 Should the government interfere in a religious practice like circumcision?The government should stand for the remaining legality of circumcision. It may require medical supervision for it, however. FGM should be completely banned. 10 Should religious political parties be required to adhere to non-discrimination standards that churches do not have to observe? What about religious schools and religious charities?Yes, they all should, though they may reasonably require acceptance of their mission statement (that has to be non-discriminatory, of course). 11 Should religious symbolism be banned on public premises (like the ban on religious symbols in French public schools)?No for personal expressions of religion in clothing, no for historical relics like crosses, yes for new permanent objects, no for temporary less imposing symbols like a nativity scene, yes for temporary more explicit symbols like crosses. 12 Should the government obstruct certain religious groups (often dubbed cults) if there is evidence that the practices are not technically coercive but can reasonably seen as financially exploitative?No, but it should lead to such a group being taxed. 13 Should religious heritage be explicitly mentioned in any constitution if one applies to your country?No. 14 What role would religion ideally have in a national curriculum?As a subject in religious studies, history, social science and ethics/philosophy. It should not be of a "generally Christian character". 15 Should the government return places of worship that have in the distant past been appropriated by one religious group from the other or in any other way impose redress?No, at least generally not. The only example with which I would agree was when several churches were returned to the Roman Catholic Church in Napoleonic times. Apart from that one, everything that happened longer than two centuries ago should be completely off limits for any return or redress. Scenes like Hindu fundies destroying mosques based on dubious claims should be avoided at all costs. More recent examples are more debatable and in some cases very defensible. 16 Should the government recognise some religious holidays such as Easter and Christmas? Should there be more accommodation for other groups?Yes and yes. I'd support a more flexible winter holiday that individuals can request in December or January. Calling it "Winterval" would probably be a bad idea however. Some other religiously inspired holidays could also be optional. 17 Should the government allow religious courts as arbitration tribunals?No. |
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Post by unkleE on Dec 16, 2014 12:07:02 GMT
I'm sure I'll think of more later and probably change my mind somewhere, but here's my first thoughts.
1 Should the government collect a tax from church members for the churches?
No.
2 Should churches receive monetary support from the government?
Only for things that benefit the community and thus would be supported if another organisation did it.
3 Should churches participate in public displays of mourning like state funerals if requested?
Not on request. They should do whatever they believe God leads them to do.
4 Should churches participate in public ceremonies like the inauguration of a head-of-state, the installation of a government or a royal marriage if requested?
Not for government, but royal wedding if they would marry other non-church members.
5 Should the government tax churches?
If they make a profit. Also appropriate land, water, etc rates.
6 Should the government prioritise official representatives of a religion over lay people when seeking consultation on matters that affect religion?
In proportion to their numbers. If most people don't attend church but profess some belief in God (as is the case in Australia) then ordinary people should also be represented in proportion.
7 Should religious schools be required to teach subjects that are controversial in some religious communities, like evolution or sex ed?
Really tricky one. I would like education to be consistent and of good standard, but there is little point imposing if parents can just home school their children. So I think probably not, or only mildly. Perhaps they should give schools the option of doing the official syllabus or preparing something of their own that covers similar matters.
8 Should the government cooperate with religious charities?
Of course, just as they should cooperate with all other charities.
9 Should the government interfere in a religious practice like circumcision?
Another tricky one. Parents should have responsibility for most aspects of their children's upbringing. But I think wherever it takes away the rights of the child, and is not done for the child's physical wellbeing, it should be prevented until the child is 18 and can choose.
10 Should religious political parties be required to adhere to non-discrimination standards that churches do not have to observe? What about religious schools and religious charities?
Any organisation that receives public funding should be accountable to the funding body for areas relevant to the funding. If the funding body thinks some form of discrimination would hurt the activity being funded, then it should specify that in the conditions. Otherwise, churches should be free to do whatever is legal for individuals to do - I am free to choose my friends, tradespeople, doctors, etc, regardless, so why shouldn't churches? I'm inclined to think the same for businesses, even though I recognise that affirmative action and other anti-discrimination actions have achieved some good benefits.
11 Should religious symbolism be banned on public premises (like the ban on religious symbols in French public schools)?
No, only if it grossly offensive and promoting violence - same rules as would apply to advertising, etc.
12 Should the government obstruct certain religious groups (often dubbed cults) if there is evidence that the practices are not technically coercive but can reasonably seen as financially exploitative?
Only if the government has similar procedures to hinder people being ripped off by unscrupulous businesses, and only to a similar degree.
13 Should religious heritage be explicitly mentioned in any constitution if one applies to your country?
Tricky one again. My first thought was "no", but then I think recognition of aboriginal peoples is important in Australia's constitution, and that would include some religious elements. But then, why mention anything more than the right for freedom of religion? So I think probably not.
14 What role would religion ideally have in a national curriculum?
Comparitive religion which includes recognition of the role the main religion has had in the arts, history, culture etc - most of this should come within the curriculum of those subjects.
15 Should the government return places of worship that have in the distant past been appropriated by one religious group from the other or in any other way impose redress?
Only if they would do the same to other property that had similarly been appropriated.
16 Should the government recognise some religious holidays such as Easter and Christmas? Should there be more accommodation for other groups?
Holidays are part of working conditions. Most people celebrate Christmas and Easter in some form, albeit mostly in a secular way. Many businesses depend on the holidays for extra sales. Why not just continue the present holidays, they are so secularised they don't really impose religion on anyone.
17 Should the government allow religious courts as arbitration tribunals?
Only in the same way they would allow voluntary mediation by lawyers or counsellors.
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