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Agora
Nov 27, 2008 9:33:15 GMT
Post by Turoldus on Nov 27, 2008 9:33:15 GMT
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Agora
Nov 27, 2008 10:16:06 GMT
Post by unkleE on Nov 27, 2008 10:16:06 GMT
Perhaps we shouldn't be too worried. When christianity is resurgent, it can get triumphalist and ugly. Getting bashed a little probably helps us see how others view us and may help keep us (collectively) humble.
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Agora
Nov 27, 2008 10:56:02 GMT
Post by jamierobertson on Nov 27, 2008 10:56:02 GMT
unklee, have you by any chance read "The Twilight Of Atheism" by Alister McGrath? He makes a very similar point in that book, which I did find intriguing (though not by any means agreeing with everything he said!)
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Agora
Nov 27, 2008 20:40:07 GMT
Post by bjorn on Nov 27, 2008 20:40:07 GMT
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Agora
Nov 27, 2008 23:04:01 GMT
Post by unkleE on Nov 27, 2008 23:04:01 GMT
unklee, have you by any chance read "The Twilight Of Atheism" by Alister McGrath? He makes a very similar point in that book, which I did find intriguing (though not by any means agreeing with everything he said!) Yes I have read that book. I don't remember that comment, but I did appreciate the book, though with mixed feelings. My problems were the sometimes apparently gleeful tone he used to describe atheist weaknesses and peccadillos. The genesis of my comment was the observation, many years ago, in the 1960s (yes I was alive then and I remember it!) when the so-called "Jesus revolution" started to take on anti-war and anti-materialism values that I felt the church should have gained from Jesus, but, in the west at least, had not (in the main). I formed the view that if God couldn't get his people to listen, he would use the world to show us new truths. Then I discovered a similar thought in Habakkuk, and observed the same thing happening on other matters (e.g. the church's wrong views on sexism, racism, environmentalism, authoritarian leadership, gay-bashing, etc). So now that idea is part of my thinking. Talk to militant atheists for very long, especially US ones, and you find them reacting strongly against nastiness and excesses in the church, especially US ones - televangelists, insensitivity, triumphalism, extreme patriotism, intolerance, etc. I believe the present day institutional church must change - I am a fan of the house church, simple church, emergent church movements. And, if I may be so bold and opinionated from such a distance, I think the arrogance of some parts of the US church will lead to it being brought down, as is perhaps already beginning to happen. Hence my comment.
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