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Post by James Hannam on Apr 19, 2009 21:18:51 GMT
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Post by James Hannam on Apr 19, 2009 21:25:40 GMT
There's a peanut gallery as well, which, as far as I can tell, goes on forever. Thus finally solving the problem as to whether an actual infinite is possible. Best wishes James |
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Post by unkleE on Apr 19, 2009 21:57:09 GMT
There's a peanut gallery as well, which, as far as I can tell, goes on forever. Thus finally solving the problem as to whether an actual infinite is possible. ;D (I loved this comment!) On a marginally more serious note, I admire you guys for venturing into the murky waters of richarddawkins.net/forum, it seems more interminable (is that a valid grammatical construction?) and rabid than most forums, and I don't have the endurance. Truly an example of what Mr Grayling was talking about when he said (from another thread): "Indeed, once this detritus of our ignorant past has been cleared away, we might see more clearly the nature of good, and pursue it aright at last." |
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Post by humphreyclarke on Apr 20, 2009 6:16:41 GMT
This part of the debate was great:
When we look at the folklore of existing primitive societies or classical ones, such as the ancient Greek or Chinese cultures, we quickly see how arrogant they are. They have a pat explanation for virtually everything. A 'just-so' description of how this came about, or why that's so: What are the stars?..."Well, they be glowing embers from the fire of our ancestors". What is the Sun?..."Why, it's a chariot with the Sun-God in it, he rides it across the sky every day...obviously has nothing better to do, so he might stop doing it any day now...nuts, better sacrifice some young'uns to him on the alter to show him how much he means to us." How did the rivers form? "Our dream-time ancestor, the Great Woggle Snake, Rainbow Serpent has made them. He lives under them; that's why they have a sinuous curve. We need to have a ceremony to honor him."
We now know them as charming mythologies, or Aboriginal 'dream-time' stories. But the people immersed in those cultures took them seriously. Now, why is it that they were deliberately misled? Why did those elders choose to lie about things they knew absolutely nothing about? Power and respect obviously had much to do with it. If you are the 'know-it-all' of your clan, you get more sex, more adulation, and more comfort. So we have, from the earliest moments of religion, a corruption of the mind and motives, a scheming confabulation, a perversion of known and unknown knowledge to suit the user's misbegotten ambitions.
After a few generations the lying bastard is either merged into the general venerated ancestral lineage or eulogized as the miracle working divine prophet.
Also this came up:
Copernicus also was, he deferred publication of his most important work till the time of his death
Good, I am refuting this myth next.
Isn't it cute how the logical positivists in this debate nearly always cite wikipedia as a source.
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Post by jamierobertson on Apr 20, 2009 12:33:20 GMT
A thought - what with all these somewhat stale canards coming up, would it be a good idea to "centralise" links to articles dealing with such commonly-raised issues? (Thinking perhaps on James' Bede page) That way it would be easier to refer someone on to them, rather than having to trawl through a blog or forum...
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Post by timoneill on May 13, 2009 2:29:23 GMT
There's a peanut gallery as well, which, as far as I can tell, goes on forever. Thus finally solving the problem as to whether an actual infinite is possible. Best wishes James After some prodding from my fellow atheists, who are cringing in embarrassment at some of the crap being spouted on that thread, I've reluctantly joined the fray. So far I've managed to debunk the idea that Theodosius "ordered all non-Christian writings to be destroyed". Not that the moron who was arguing that has noticed, but everyone else seems to have worked out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't. At this rate, however, this could drag on for some time ... |
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Post by humphreyclarke on May 13, 2009 6:14:56 GMT
This part is hilarious: richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72249&start=325TimONeill's research quality is then questionable. Earlier he ridiculed Wikipedia, which (although it has its problems, like any other source) is generally the most respected & reliable information source on the face of the planet. So that also goes against his critical judgement.
I've already explained, using that quote from Solipsy, that my link was generally agreed with by others (see my Wiki & other links), even if the author was wrong on other issues on other links that have nothing to do with this subject.
When you look into how Wikipedia works you'll see that every sentence is refereed, especially on such a controversial topic as 'book-burning'.
The referees & editors have to substantiate their edits otherwise the edit is expunged. The edits or submissions must be accompanied by prior sources of other authors. This is a level of certainty which is above that used by other encyclopedias or independent publications of historians in either books or journals.
If you doubt me, go and edit any well-known article in Wikipedia with a rubbish insertion and see how long it lasts. It'll be uploaded for a while, but every historian with an interest in that topic will be alerted immediately (in the same way that RDF alerts you when a thread of interest has a new post). They will be alerted, and the change will be displayed to them. If the change is crap, it will be reversed. You will have to explain in detail why you made that edit and what sources you've used. A debate ensues (not visible to the public) where the contributors nut it out. If there is an insurmountable problem, senior editors are called in to make sure the protocol has been meticulously adhered to. This method of error correction has only been available since the internet became widespread.Awww, bless. The naivety is somewhat charming. The 'Historian' Galaxian chose to back up his points was this chap: www.hermes-press.com/DAtruth.htm www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htmLet's see - the two historians I mentioned are David C. Lindberg and Edward Grant. Lindberg is Hilldale Professor Emeritus of History of Science and Past Director of the Institute for Research in the Humanities, at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and the former President of the History of Science Society and has been recipient of the George Sarton Medal. Grant is is Distinguished Professor Emeritus, Department of History and Philosophy of Science, Indiana University, Bloomington and also a recipient of the George Sarton Medal. And what have you come up with? Ummm, another website by ... some guy called "Norman D. Livergood" who has written a book on mysticism published by some outfit called "Dandelion Press" and who has a Phd in ... artificial intelligenceHe also does a nice side line in something called 'hypnotic trance development' www.hermes-press.com/hyp_essence.htm |
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Post by humphreyclarke on May 13, 2009 13:05:21 GMT
After some prodding from my fellow atheists, who are cringing in embarrassment at some of the crap being spouted on that thread, I've reluctantly joined the fray. So far I've managed to debunk the idea that Theodosius "ordered all non-Christian writings to be destroyed". Not that the moron who was arguing that has noticed, but everyone else seems to have worked out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't. At this rate, however, this could drag on for some time ... I have deployed Lord Kitchener to get a few punches in while you are away. |
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Post by krkey1 on May 13, 2009 14:44:22 GMT
I try to be understand but when you use as a source a website that uses DND art you completely, utterly, lose me.
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Post by krkey1 on May 13, 2009 14:45:48 GMT
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Post by humphreyclarke on May 13, 2009 14:54:24 GMT
He says: We'll examine what actually happened in the time called "the Dark Ages" -- nullifying the false histories of Christian apologists who would have us believe that this era of retrogression was caused solely by the "heathen barbaric hordes." As more honest historians such as Gibbons have discovered, the Dark Ages was largely brought on by the corruption of a counterfeit Christianity. Damn those pesky Gibbons! |
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Post by James Hannam on May 13, 2009 14:58:46 GMT
Who is Gibbons?
Surely no relation to the noted eighteenth century author of the Decline and Fall?
J
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Post by humphreyclarke on May 13, 2009 15:02:30 GMT
Who is Gibbons? Surely no relation to the noted eighteenth century author of the Decline and Fall? J See above |
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Post by krkey1 on May 13, 2009 15:54:12 GMT
Hey Humphrey
How did you post the pic in the blog?
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Post by humphreyclarke on May 13, 2009 16:17:21 GMT
You have to host your image somewhere (e.g Imageshack). You then do a post and select the image icon from the list of options (you dont see these on quick reply). When you do this, two tags will appears:
[i.m.g] [/i.m.g]) - I have put dots in this example so you can actually see the tag.
You have to put the image url in between these tags.
Once you've done that, hey presto
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