Discussions on extra-biblical evidence for Jesus

[TheistusMaximus]

What I find fascinating among the myriad of revisionists and even eminent scholars, is the lack of any real consensus among the evidence for Jesus outside the Gospel and Pauline evidence.

So, I would like to create this thread for the purpose of pondering over the non-Christian sources for establishing the existence of Jesus (or perhaps finding a setback.)

What is your position on it, and what (if any, though it is rather unlikely that all are rejected under the criteria of scrutiny applied) references do you consider to be genuine?

If so, why do you think they are relevant, and what do you think they add to the discussion of historical Jesus studies?

Thanks.

[bjorn]

I don't think they are all that relevant and have personally not found them very interesting or usefull for the purpose.

Those who in spite of The New testament hold that Jesus don't exist, will be equally creative in finding reasons to doubt other evidence.

OTOH, even if NT had not existed, I think one can make a reasonable case for a historical Jesus from such sources, based on normal, historical methodology.

[sandwiches]

True that non-biblical references will always be disputed by Jesus-mythicists but at least they make it more difficult for the mythicists to simply dismiss Jesus as a myth. The Gospels and Paul can stand by themselves as evidence but at a popular level it is easy to start bringing out superficial stuff about resurrection myths and imply yes it must have all been made up.
But even at a simplistic level of debate the Jesus mythicists sound a little unhinged when they start implying non-biblical references (even very hostile ones) were all forgeries or otherwise valueless. Arguments too about the authencity of the references can become so involved that they seem to go around in circles.
Apart from all that though I find the references and debates around the references fascinating simply because they show the numerous considerations involved in historical scholarship - the intricacies of language and shades of meaning for words, the context in which a passage appears, the views of the writer of the passage, the audience for which he was writing etc. In particular in the case of references to Jesus it is fascinating to get a glimpse of the development and image of Jesus in the early decades following the death of Jesus through the eyes of a Roman historian (Tacitus) or a Jewish one (Josephus). As to Josephus see:
www.bede.org.uk/Josephus.htm
A Thorough Review of the Testimonium Flavianum
By Christopher Price