Lust Vapour

[rorschach]

Hi,

I’m about a third of the way through “God’s Philosophers” and am finding it an excellent stimulating read. One small aside has left me baffled and fascinated though. Quite early in the book James remarks that (to paraphrase, don’t have the book to hand), “like the Romans, the medievals believed that lust emanated from
Women as a kind of vapour”.

I’m not sure what to make of this information! It seems so patently false and counter-intuitive to the modern mind as to be nonsense. It also sounds incredibly self-serving within a patriarchal culture: one can imagine the stereotypical sexually-repressed cleric saying defensively “It wasn’t my fault, your grace! The evil harlot clouded my mind with her wicked lasciviousness”.

Could someone ‘unpack’ this for me a little? Did they really believe this, and were it’s sources in the ancient world? I'm probably suffering from a failure of the historical imagination.

[eckadimmock]

I'll leave the historical comment to those better informed, but it's not quite as silly as it sounds if you consider pheromones. (Of course, men have those too).

[rorschach]

I’m just finding it a little difficult to understand how such a belief would arise or “evolve”, particularly as lustiness is much more of a male quality than a female in modern society. Though I suppose the idea doesn’t say that women are lustful, only that they make men lusty.

Is this belief an aspect of what underlies in those cultures whose women are obliged to cover themselves up as an act of modesty e.g. Islamic countries? I’ve gathered that Roman women had to put up with similar constraints. Rodney Stark has written about women in early Christian communities, on the enhanced status they enjoyed in general plus other benefits such as social welfare for widows, not forcing widows to remarry, not requiring young women to marry until they were much older than was the Roman norm, etc. Perhaps the Christian emphasis on sensual restraint and personal responsibility in men as well as women was at that time a liberation for women?

[humphreyclarke]

I think it's a misreading of Galenic Medical Theory (which was mostly rubbish to start with) combined with a misogynistic attitude inherited from antiquity. You can get some idea of medieval attitudes here:

bedejournal.blogspot.com/2009/04/urbanus-magnus-civilised-man.html

[rorschach]

Thanks, that puts it into context.

I need to read more around the medieval worldview. The Discarded Image helped, but it was a little more high-minded than the article you referenced.

[James Hannam]

Hi rorschach,

Sorry I missed this and I hope you are enjoying the book.

Something that you eventually realise after reading enough old books is how incredibly sexist every society ever has been. It's not just the western Middle Ages, but everywhere. But it is so taken for granted that it is sometimes hard to spot. We also get silly theories about ancient matriarchies further muddying the waters.

Many societies have blamed male lust on women. Some still do which is why they insist women are covered from head to foot. The theory behind the belief is, to some extent, irrelevant. And even today, many people claim that a woman who is raped or assaulted was 'asking for it' by being provocatively dressed or not quite sober. And just look at the different connotations of the words slut and stud.

So, despite the strange vapours, the Middle Ages weren't being strange in this respect. In the compass of human history, we are the weird ones and a very good thing it is too.

Best wishes

James