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Post by davedodo007 on Feb 8, 2011 0:02:02 GMT
Like I have said many times before, I think physics at least in the quantum field is almost a quasi religion in its self. Though a least they go to the trouble of explaining the maths and how it fits in with reality. Feel free to explain how a bronze/Iron age tribes who know nothing about nothing explain our universe. Bloody hell this must be the only place where I have to defend physics, My physicists friends wouldn't recognize me on this forum.
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Post by krkey1 on Feb 8, 2011 0:44:34 GMT
Nothing religious about it. A quantum tunnel is filled with quanta. A tunnel is a something, a quanta is a something and any product from them is a something. Certainly this does not refute the principle from nothing comes nothing. If anything it shows the obvious, from something comes something.
You seem to think people have to reject science in order to believe in a God. As it is the answer of God for why there is something instead of nothing was a good answer in the Bronze and Iron age and it seems to be a good answer now.
I fail to see where you are defending physics. If anything you are abusing physics by claiming things such as quantum tunnels are nothings, when they are clearly something. You are also abusing one of the most self evidence principles of science and philosophy; from nothing comes nothing.
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Post by humphreyclarke on Feb 8, 2011 12:03:57 GMT
I read Victor's book just to see what answers physics has come up with. Was this 'God the Failed Hypothesis' ? I read this a while back and - to be fair - it was utter bullnuts (sorry that is the rudest word you can use on this forum due to the filter). There were only about 2 chapters on physics and they were riddled with errors. Read Sean Carroll, Lee Smolin or Peter Woit instead.
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Post by noons on Feb 8, 2011 17:25:02 GMT
I have never believed in god and now I never will. Call that closed minded if you wish but what would have convinced me in the past. If the whole world believed in one god or set of gods, there was but one religion all around the world. Is it beyond god to write a book that is misinterpreted by everyone. Are its communication skills so lacking then it is a lousy god/s. Have amputees been cured by prayer. Now all them things would convince me of is that a superior alien technology was being used. ;D I don't mean to be a grammar nazi, but those first sentences here really don't make much sense. However, what you are telling me here is not an argument, it is a rationalization for being intellectually lazy and ignoring scholarship. If you want to ignore scholarship, go ahead, but it won't get you anywhere here.
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Post by davedodo007 on Feb 11, 2011 7:33:09 GMT
I think you have a long way to go in making virtual particles nothings. First off virtual particles are by their nature somethings, hence the name virtual particles. If they were true nothings we could not detect them. Please give me the exact weight and dimension of nothing for example. What exactly does nothing look like. Secondly virtual particles come from a quantum tunnel which is certainly a something. A quantum tunnel is filled with quanta which are in fact a physical things. If a quantum tunnel always existed you would expect the universe to be be an infinite age old and having already wound down from entropy. Stenger's arguments simply do not work . I'm coming up against forum members who rate: M Midgley, Fodor & Co, Turner, C S Lewis and bloody W L Craig. Please don't take it personally but I think this forum sets the bar low for theists and too high for atheists. I will talk to some physicists and get back to you on this.
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Post by krkey1 on Feb 11, 2011 17:47:54 GMT
Yes and if they tell you these are nothing that make somethings I want more then their word, I want elaborate explanations.
So is it safe to say that Dave that educated atheists think something comes from nothing on a tremendous scale and only uninformed atheist deny this obvious fact. Is this the height of atheistic "rationality"?
As it is it seems atheist have made the bar pretty low without our help. You are the supporters of historical trash such as Jesus never existed, the conflict thesis and now scientific and philosophical trash of the first order by claiming from nothing comes something. I don't think theists could have made the bar lower for your side if we had the opportunity.
All the above people you mentioned Dave have forgotten more facts in a week then you have ever learned period so I find it comical indeed you think you are your cronies are smarter then they are.
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Post by davedodo007 on Feb 12, 2011 5:57:24 GMT
Yes and if they tell you these are nothing that make somethings I want more then their word, I want elaborate explanations. Surely something must come from nothing otherwise it would be something from something else. Apart from that I agree. Such negative waves, I bet you are fun at parties. ;D Guilty as charged. Ditto. I don't know about that, the limbo dancers are definitely in your camp. Shame, I thought we were getting on famously, how about a dry martini shaken not stirred. ;D
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Post by krkey1 on Feb 12, 2011 19:11:55 GMT
I am making a comment so krkey1 will be a straight flush on the Q Forum
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