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Post by krkey1 on Feb 13, 2011 0:12:47 GMT
Actually Dave I consider you and Gym to be comic relief. If was in a meaner mood I would suggest you two are Christians trying to make Atheism look bad.
The worst fallout in history came when atheists gained power over various countries and non atheist had to deal with it.
I was not aware that atheist were immune to sexism and I will point out some of the worst violence toward homosexuals is now being done in former Communist countries which have a higher population of atheist. Dooh!! Racism too!! Dooh!!
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Post by davedodo007 on Feb 13, 2011 1:38:13 GMT
Actually Dave I consider you and Gym to be comic relief. If was in a meaner mood I would suggest you two are Christians trying to make Atheism look bad. To paraphrase, please mummy make them nasty atheist go away.  Ho! Spare me. For once in theistic existence you had a taste of your own medicine and boy will you not stop crying about it. What you didn't like the shoe being on the other foot for once so boo hoo. That's what happens when their is no reason for your discrimination and you live by your beliefs. Walk a mile in them moccasins my friend. Of course they do but I have even argued with right wing extremist and got some results. I pointed out the though immigration is a problem it's the governments doing, they want low wages so they bring people in who would work for less. You can't blame people for wanting a better life and they should take it up with the government. You will be surprise how even low intelligent Nazis understand this simplistic argument and end up agreeing with you. Sexism is even easier you just have to relate the discrimination to their mother, even the most sexist bloke ever wont have anything bad said about his mother. The religious on the other hand are devoid of reason, gods rules, end of. It's like hitting a brick wall of stupidity, as it's been said before ' you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.' |
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Post by captainzman on Feb 13, 2011 1:58:34 GMT
Speaking as someone who has been directly affected by this kind of religious persecution: what you have said is downright repulsive and monstrous. It reflects very poorly upon you.
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Post by krkey1 on Feb 13, 2011 2:30:19 GMT
Dave, it's spelled Mommy not mummy, geez are you dull.
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Post by davedodo007 on Feb 13, 2011 2:37:59 GMT
Speaking as someone who has been directly affected by this kind of religious persecution: what you have said is downright repulsive and monstrous. It reflects very poorly upon you. Nah! Not really I have seen to many videos of woman being stoned to death, too many homosexuals hanged, Schoolgirls having acid throw in their face for getting an education and/or not covering their faces. People who are dead or had their limbs blown off because they where a different religion or different sect of that religion. I'm sorry if anything I say offends you but we really need to get away from your beliefs so that the world is a healthier place for all people to live. |
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Post by davedodo007 on Feb 13, 2011 2:40:15 GMT
Dave, it's spelled Mommy not mummy, geez are you dull. No, just British. ;D |
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Post by captainzman on Feb 13, 2011 2:51:15 GMT
Speaking as someone who has been directly affected by this kind of religious persecution: what you have said is downright repulsive and monstrous. It reflects very poorly upon you. Nah! Not really I have seen to many videos of woman being stoned to death, too many homosexuals hanged, Schoolgirls having acid throw in their face for getting an education and/or not covering their faces. People who are dead or had their limbs blown off because they where a different religion or different sect of that religion. I'm sorry if anything I say offends you but we really need to get away from your beliefs so that the world is a healthier place for all people to live. What you said boiled down to shrugging off all sorts of atrocities committed against religious people because you think they deserved it. That kind of thinking is disgusting, vile, and evil. Yes, it offends me, and it should offend decent people everywhere. If there's anything that the world could do without, it's your brand of atheism. |
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Post by himself on Feb 13, 2011 3:44:46 GMT
The difference is atheists have morals, some atheists might even have bad morals but we do have them. The religious don't, there is no such thing as Christian 'morals' they don't exist. It's just obedience that's it in a nutshell. These are the rules, you obey them. What's moral about that. The punishments for disobeying these rules are extreme. Collect sticks on the Sabbath, death. Being raped, death. Worshipping other gods or non. Death etc. Thou shalt no kill but if you break any of these commandments, death. It's so bloody unreal it's pathetic. This of course leads to real world consequences like sexism, homophobia etc. What is it about a rabid atheism that leads inevitably to a construction of myths about history and society? One of the distinguishing marks of Christianity is that it is orthodox, not orthoprax. That means it is a matter of "right belief," not "right practice." Unlike orthodox Judaism and Islam, it provided a set of principles for reasoning about the world, not primarily a set of statutes. Read what Aquinas says of honor killings, for example, not what your mythos says. Sexism and homophobia are sins imputed [to others] from a particular political stance. The sexual dimorphism inherent in human biology has influenced all human societies, not merely Christian ones. Like the status of homosexuals, it is a cultural thing independent of religion. My son-in-law, who is Sunni muslim, has been accused by his family of being "more muslim than Arab" because he objects to certain traditional practices of Arab culture that he thinks have no place in islam. The Men With Swords will use whatever is handy to whip folks up. If they are fervently religious, Caesar will use religion. If, as in the Modern Age, they worship the Nation, he will use Nationallism. There is an old Irish saying: "If the king of England woke up Hindu, the Irish would be facing Mecca by nightfall." That is, the religious difference is a weapon in an ethnic/national struggle. Whether an atheist can have morals is an interesting question. Atheists who have actually thought deeply about it (Sartre, Rorty, et al.) have concluded that they cannot or (Nietzsche) should not. The basic charge is that their morality is whatever they try to salvage from the wreckage of Christianity. St. Paul on the other hand says that anyone has access through reason to the natural law and will be judged accordingly. So the notion that atheists can be moral is a Christian one and is contrary to the most incisive atheist philosophers. A curious paradox. |
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Post by krkey1 on Feb 13, 2011 4:11:45 GMT
Earlier people object to my comparison of Carrier to Irving. However I found something that shows that Carrier abuses sources in the exact same manner as David Irving does: www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?135968-Richard-Carrier-s-Biggest-Lie-EverCarrier was 100% caught lying here. If I had done this in college I would have been expelled. I stand by my comment. There is no real difference between Carrier and Irving. |
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Post by James Hannam on Feb 13, 2011 9:57:25 GMT
I stand by my comment. There is no real difference between Carrier and Irving. You are entitled to your opinion. However, I would be grateful if you do not express it here. We should abide by the principles of charity and good faith, which means attacking the ball and not the man while assuming the man is not cheating. And yes, athiests are cut more slack on this board than Christians. If that seems unfair, I'm afraid that is the way its got to be. Best wishes James |
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Post by krkey1 on Feb 13, 2011 15:08:22 GMT
But Carrier does demonstrably cheat James and that is the problem. I do not go after Tim this way for example and he is an atheist historian, but he is also an honest man. Carrier has shown himself to be dishonest. Yes atheists are cut more slack here but is it to such a degree that their dishonesty cannot be called dishonesty?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2011 16:08:33 GMT
The parallel between Carrier and Irving that I see is that they're both incompetent as historians.
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Post by krkey1 on Feb 13, 2011 18:12:45 GMT
I wish Carrier was just incompetent, however he is dishonest, I have no doubts left about that. Historians disagree, that is fine, however historians should never lie and Carrier lies. There is no way around it.
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Post by davedodo007 on Feb 13, 2011 21:36:00 GMT
Nah! Not really I have seen to many videos of woman being stoned to death, too many homosexuals hanged, Schoolgirls having acid throw in their face for getting an education and/or not covering their faces. People who are dead or had their limbs blown off because they where a different religion or different sect of that religion. I'm sorry if anything I say offends you but we really need to get away from your beliefs so that the world is a healthier place for all people to live. What you said boiled down to shrugging off all sorts of atrocities committed against religious people because you think they deserved it. That kind of thinking is disgusting, vile, and evil. Yes, it offends me, and it should offend decent people everywhere. If there's anything that the world could do without, it's your brand of atheism. Sorry about that captainzman, I was just pissed off with being accused of being a genocidal megalomaniac because I'm a atheist. I was just attacking key1 thingymybob, You can see from my other comments that I have never supported totalitarianism. Why would any right minded person. I sorry for what you may have suffered, just as I deplore all suffering all around the world. My brand of atheism is that I talk and shout and write. I get upset when I see suffering and religion is no stranger to implementing a lot of that suffering. I'm a vegan because I don't think humans have a right to cause animal suffering. Apologies and all the best. |
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Post by davedodo007 on Feb 13, 2011 22:24:08 GMT
I stand by my comment. There is no real difference between Carrier and Irving. You are entitled to your opinion. However, I would be grateful if you do not express it here. We should abide by the principles of charity and good faith, which means attacking the ball and not the man while assuming the man is not cheating. And yes, athiests are cut more slack on this board than Christians. If that seems unfair, I'm afraid that is the way its got to be. Best wishes Why? All I ask as an atheist is a level playing field, I'm no fan of krkey1 as he provoked me into a post that ended up with me upsetting captainzman. I agree with attacking the ball not the man but I also throw in a little dig in while I'm at it. Doesn't that leave the person I'm debating with at a disavantage? I'll be interested in your thoughts on the issue. James |
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