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Post by mercuriade on Jun 17, 2010 17:32:23 GMT
Good Evening. I'm a student of Paleography at the University of Salerno, the town of the Medical School. I'd like to have ad advice about a thorny problem, raised by the Amenabar's Agorà : women had a place in the development of science in Middle ages? Usually is said no (Duby and his male Middle Ages). But there are some evidences that make us reflect: I'm from Salerno, and here there's the Trotula and other Salernitan Ladies problem; it seems that they have written some scientific works, in latin. On the other side there are Hildegard von Bingen and Herrade of Hohenbourg, and a young lady like Constantina, who taught astronomy even to John of Basingstoke. Usually is said that they aren't than exceptions, but some authors (female) like Patricia Ranft and Jane Stevenson, dont't think so. What do you think about it? Thank you very much.
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Post by merkavah12 on Jun 18, 2010 14:05:49 GMT
Definitely a thorny subject given the misogyny of the time. But the existence of Von Bingen, Trotula, Abella, Giliani, and others proves that despite the conditions of the time there were women in the Middle Ages who advanced science.
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Post by perplexedseeker on Jun 18, 2010 15:20:32 GMT
I once heard an interesting theory advanced by a female historian of medieval philosophy, who suggested that in order to get their voices heard, it was necessary for philosophically-inclined women to adopt an aura of mysticism, or get into a position of authority via the monasteries. It's surely no coincidence that many famous women from the middle ages were abbesses.
Does anyone know more that would confirm or refute this view?
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Post by ratbag on Jun 18, 2010 16:03:33 GMT
I suppose being a religious would have enabled them to;
a. Learn to read and access to libraries b. Live longer (no risk of dying in childbirth) to think more
Also aren't most male medieval philosophers in religious orders too? I can't think of any who weren't in at least minor orders offhand.
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Post by perplexedseeker on Jun 22, 2010 12:47:19 GMT
The vast majority were, again as you say because of the easy access to books, education and so on.
On the other hand, at least a few Muslim and Jewish philosophers produced works that were influential in Europe, although they never visited to teach, understandably! They are normally known by westernised names, like Averroes and Avicenna.
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Post by ratbag on Jun 22, 2010 16:14:53 GMT
Averroes and Avicenna were women??? ;-)
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Post by perplexedseeker on Jun 24, 2010 8:50:07 GMT
Haha, yes, bit of a nonsequitur there. What I was trying to get across was that medieval intellectual culture was not quite as monolithic as it is often made out to be.
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Post by mercuriade on Jun 29, 2010 15:34:09 GMT
Thanks to everybody. Now, I would like to do some observations in further detail about some aspects of this problem (and maybe having some opinion from the moderator!)
First aspect: women and medicine. This sentence reminds immediatly of the Trotula problem. Scholars have opposite opinions about it. Some Italian scholars, along the lines of Salvatore De Renzi, thinks that the Trotula book (In Italy, we call it with his latin name, De Mulierum Passionibus or, distinguishing between the two works, Trotula Maior and Trotula Minor) could be written by a 11th century female doctor called Trota or Trotula. In Salerno, we usually call her Trotula de Ruggiero (we have also a street intitled to her), as Enrico Bacco in 16th century did; she may be the wife of John Platearius the Elder and mother of John the Younger and Mathew Platearius. John Benton and Monica Green, on the contrary, says that the Trotula book is a three authors' book attributed later to Trotula; two of them, authors of the Trotula Maior, more scientific, would be male, whereas the Trotula Minor or De Ornatu, more divulgative, would be written by a woman. But I think that the Trotula book, also after the finding of Madrid's manuscript (XIII century), is too spurious to say without any doubt who its real author is. Ferruccio Bertini says that the Trotula book may be the result of her pupils' notes; also Patricia Ranft hypothesize the existence of a "School of Trotula". John Benton and Monica Green say that the real Trota (that of Wroclaw manuscript) wasn't a gynecologist, but a specialist in digestive system diseases. Pina Boggi Cavallo and Elisabetta Bartoli, on the contrary, says that she toke care of the whole body. On the other hand, Trotula wouldn't be the only woman in writting medical works in latin. Jane Stevenson thinks that Abella da Castellomata or Salernitana is really exhisted and wrote de Atra Bile and de natura seminis humani.
What do you think about this problem?
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Post by James Hannam on Jun 29, 2010 16:31:21 GMT
Hello Mercuriade,
Thanks for the fascinating post, although I can't add anything myself.
Reviewers occasionally take me to task for not including enough woman and mention Trotula as someone whom I should have mentioned. On the basis of your post, I'm quite glad I didn't open that particular can of worms.
Best wishes
James
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Post by mercuriade on Jun 30, 2010 10:35:25 GMT
Thank you anyway. But I've something that could be interesting for you. The poet Rutebeuf (XIII century) describes Trotula as a learned lady who sended her emissaries to kill wild animals to make her ointments. It's clearly a legend, but it could be a clue of something more. In fact, the 17th century bishop of Salerno Antonio Mazza attributes to her a work, De feribus, in few words, a bestiary; and Thomasset, in the XIII century, calls her "philosopher". So, could Trotula be, in your opinion not only a phisycian, but also a natural philosopher?
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