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Post by krkey1 on Feb 18, 2011 14:52:55 GMT
Over here in the states Islam in Europe is pretty much presented as a madman who refuses to assimilate to European Culture, wants to create Sharia Law, has created no go zones in various cities and a huge etc. While all of the above are true to an extent just how much of this is really going on? Our is this problem being greatly exaggerated. I would be curious for the Europeans on this blog to describe their views of Islam in Europe and how successfully has it adopted to European Society assuming it has done so.
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Post by humphreyclarke on Feb 18, 2011 15:24:04 GMT
The growth of Islam in the UK has been nothing short of phenomenal. The latest figures show that the numbers of Muslims have shot up from 1.65 million to 2.87 million since 2001 - this in a population of 61 million. If that doesn't sound like a lot then I should point out that is roughly the same as the population of Wales - a part of the UK with its own Parliament so Muslims are clearly going to be an important minority.
Having had a few Muslim friends in the UK I feel lot of the more alarmist stuff is exaggerated. Of course there is an undeniable clash of values - mainly over stuff like drinking and anti-homosexuality. I'm very much a liberal and there has been a few times I have had to bite my tongue on certain issues so as to avoid conflict. I would say the 'no-go areas' bit is less true of the UK and more true of the suburbs of Paris where there has been a lot of conflict.
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Post by ignorantianescia on Feb 19, 2011 12:36:29 GMT
I cannot establish it very well since I am a rural person who doesn't exactly have a lot of daily contact with Muslims. Judging from reliable news outlets, there are some areas where there is quite some violence between Muslims and other groups, like the mainly Protestant Moluccans, and sometimes you see young children staying up late causing trouble, but a lot would have to do with low overall levels of education and a fatalist attitude. The average education is improving, though, but problems remain among low-educated youths. Another issue is the training of imams. Most of them are not born in the Netherlands and they aren't usually very in tune with our society. Some of the media outlets that are more hostile to Islam will go at quite some lengths to overstate how bad the situation is, though. All in all, I see no reason to vote PVV! Maybe this outdated factsheet is of some use? home.deds.nl/~quip/archief/culture/Multicult%20islaminhollandeng.htm |
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Post by gymnopodie on Feb 19, 2011 15:48:22 GMT
humphreyclarke wrote:
On one visit to the UK, I went to a boot sale and there was a Muslim woman buying stuff and hanging it on the back of a baby stroller. The weight of the items caused the stroller to tip back and the baby went nearly out on the ground. I stepped in to help which made the woman upset and then when she bent over to get the baby, she revealed her face and immediately started groaning and moaning and nearly busted out crying. I feel for anyone who is THAT trapped in a religion, any religion.
BTW, Humphrey, my wife became a US citizen yesterday.
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Post by sandwiches on Feb 20, 2011 20:45:06 GMT
I have quite a lot of contact with Muslims. I live in a region of England where there are some heavy concentrations of Muslims and my job (as a lecturer) involves dealing with quite a few younger Muslims. I think on the whole, from my perspective, that things will work out OK in the end.
It is only since the terrorist bombings in London a few years ago that we (middle-class white people) actually woke up and noticed that there were actually these strange (in the sense of exotic, not like more long-established communities) people living among us. The difference in cultural attitudes is fascinating. Muslim girls tend to be very polite, pleasant and usually go around in twos or threes. Muslim boys tend to be very spoilt and immature and keen to impress each other (and the girls). I think the boys, when they find themselves escaping some strictures they are under at home, tend to go overboard and make a bit of a nuisance of themselves when allowed out abroad in the wider world.
The girls seem in general rather more able to adapt and are more hardworking and even a little more adventurous and willing to go on educational trips abroad to Europe as part of their studies.
I have some Muslim colleagues too who as well as being extremely intelligent and hardworking and very well-qualified, seem very well brought up and polite with good interpersonal skills.
Yet there is an odd interface between tradition and modernity even with the latter. One charming and very popular female Muslim colleague (educated to PhD level) was the subject of what seemed to be an arranged marriage to a succesful professional male Muslim, born and educated in England. The violence and intimidation she was initially subjected to after her marriage, by her own account was astonishing. Things settled down and I gather they seem reasonably happy but she is still expected to act almost as a servant to her husband's family and his mother in particular (in addition to her job). I gather her own family was of lower status than his.
Things will improve I guess with time and education.
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Post by humphreyclarke on Feb 25, 2011 14:03:22 GMT
BTW, Humphrey, my wife became a US citizen yesterday. Good to hear mate. Still a way for me to go yet. Ever tempted to become a U.K citizen or does the weather and the general atmosphere of misery put you off ? |
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